Me: Many say that if Iranâs supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, is a reported Azeri, how can racism still exist in Iran? And the same could be said about Mir-Hussein Mousavi, the âunofficial leaderâ of current opposition movement in Iran, who happens to be an Azeri. How can you explain this?
Dr. Asgharzadeh: The supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khameneiâs father was an Azeri from the city of Khameneh, but his mother is Persian and he himself was born in the Persian city of Mashhad. A few weeks ago, on the occasion of The Motherâs Day in Iran, a group of children and adolescents were visiting him. And in this visit he talked about his own childhood, his upbringing, and his parents, identifying his mother as a Persian and a âHafez-Shenasâ (someone well-versed in Hafez, the great Persian poet). So his mother tongue is Farsi but he has picked up some Azeri words from his Azerbaijani father which he occasionally blabbers–for the sheer purpose of demagoguery– when he visits Azerbaijani cities or when Azerbaijanis visit him. Interestingly enough, the leader of current opposition movement, Mir-Hussein Mousavi, too, is an Azeri-Turk, born in the Azerbaijani town of Khameneh and migrated with his family to the capital city of Tehran at the age of 12. Nevertheless, it would be a mistake to assume that, in the context of Iranian politics, ethnic lineage plays any role in disturbing Iranâs dominant national identity as modeled on the identity of the Persian ethnic group.
People like Mousavi and Khamenei are assimilated Azerbaijanis to whom the local Azeri vernacular refers as âManqurtâ: i.e., someone who has forsaken his/her own roots and embraced the identity of the dominant to the exclusion of his/her former identity. Put differently, a âManqurtâ is someone who assumes someone elseâs identity and at the same time fights against the âformerâ community from which he or she has originally come. As such, it would be a mistake to presume that Mousaviâs ascendency to power will bring about any improvement in the condition of his Azerbaijani community, just as the role of Khamenei as the supreme leader has not done so. If anything, the dominant Persian group uses the examples of individuals like Khamenei and Mousavi to deny the existence of racial/ethnic discrimination in the country, employing these assimilated figures as decoys to masquerade its domination of non-Persian communities.
Conversely, the elite and assimilated members of non-Persian communities whole-heartedly support the dominant group and its racist/exclusionary policies vis-Ă -vis the marginalized communities. These âManqurtsâ include elite members of parliament, heads of local and provincial apparatuses of government, mayors, governorates, university presidents, local educational authorities, heads of police stations and military units, and so on and so forth. In terms of representing the rights of local communities, the âManqurtsâ not only fully support the repression of human/ethnic/linguistic rights of their community members, they even go farther than the central governmentâs oppressive policies in an attempt to show their loyalty to the state which in turn guarantees their positions of power and privilege. This process could be viewed in recent Iranian election, where the choice between the Persian candidate Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and the Azeri candidate Mir-Hussein Mousavi, to Iranâs Azeri population was clearly a choice between Scylla and Charybdis.
Me: Does Racism exist among Iranians outside of Iran?
Dr. Asgharzadeh:Â Yes, it does and its degree depends on their socialization, their age, etc. Usually, it is not that prevalent among younger generations particularly if they grow up in multi-racial environments. However, it is more rampant among the older generation who has come with its cultural and linguistic baggage from the old country. Among members of this group- many of them highly educated- youâll see a lot of references to Aryan race, Aryan blood, superior civilization, superior language, and that sort of things. Anti-Semitism, anti-Arabism and anti-Turkism are also very prevalent among them.
Particularly, in recent years we have witnessed the emergence in Iranian Diaspora of a group of hooligans and, if you will, intellectual thugs, who run around and blatantly attack whoever talks of Iranâs Azerbaijani or Turkic population, a population which numbers over 20 million. Whoever defends the rights of this particular community, even the scholars who do objective research on the situation of this community in Iran, and even those members of the community who self-identify as Azerbaijani-Turks are attacked by these racist thugs who, using various pseudonyms, label these individuals as âpan-Turkistâ and so forth. In my book, Iran and the Challenge of Diversity, I have given some samples of racist literature produced in Iranian Diaspora.
Me: Let us turn to your book then. When was it written and what is it about? Can you explain its core arguments?
Dr. Asgharzadeh:Â My book Iran and the Challenge of Diversity: Aryanist Racism, Islamic Fundamentalism, and Democratic Struggles, was published by Palgrave Macmillan in the summer of 2007. Basically, the book explores a number of important questions such as: How is the racist order produced, maintained, and perpetuated in contemporary Iran? How do the acts of othering, misrepresentation, and racism take place through works of literature, history, religion, and other textual/discursive means? What role does language play throughout the processes of âotherization,â foreignization, cultural annihilation, and assimilation in contemporary Iran? What are the ramifications of Aryanist racism for Iranâs non-Persian ethnic groups? How do the victims of this racism engage in acts of resistance against the ongoing racial/ethnic oppression? What role can the intellectuals, scholars, social activists, and the education system play in helping to eliminate racism in Iranian society?
The book, then, seeks to establish the existence of racism and its detrimental ramifications for social, political, economic, and educational developments in Iran. It examines the role of Europe, and the West in general, in the origination and development of modern racism in Iran. It also explores possible mechanisms, ways, and sites through which racism can be eliminated in Iran, for instance through empowering the marginalized languages; providing space for the expression of indigenous histories; reforming the education system, etc. In so doing, the book deconstructs the dominant Euro-centric ideas of nation, nationalism, nation-statism and Aryanism in an Iranian context. It implicates the dominant members of Farsi-speaking community in their capacity as writers, poets, and intellectuals in producing, reproducing, and maintaining unequal ethnic, cultural, and linguistic relations in the country. At the same time, it provides a space for marginalized communities in Iran to articulate their condition through their own voices, in their own languages, and by way of their own literatures, as opposed to being exclusively represented through the dominant Persian language and literature. It redefines and rearticulates the question of citizenship based on equal cultural, linguistic, and human rights of each citizen, each collectivity, and each community. This rearticulation challenges the dominant notion of citizenship, which has granted the ownership of the country to certain group(s) based on their âAryan-ness.â
Me: What was some of the backlash you have received as a result of your work and your book? Have you yourself experienced any direct racism?
Dr. Asgharzadeh: Well, to expose Aryanist racism in Iran, to talk about ethnic, linguistic and cultural rights for the non-Persian communities, these are taboo topics among Iranians, regardless of whether they are inside Iran or in Iranian Diaspora outside, and regardless of whether they are a part of the current Islamic regime or a part of its opposition. This is an act of daring, a speaking of truth to power. And when you do that, the power reacts. This reaction takes many forms, from the blocking of your publications in Iran-related and Middle East-related academic journals to attacking you in conferences and seminars to threats of getting you expelled from your job and so on and so forth.
Recently a progressive Canada-based Persian newspaper named Shahrvand interviewed me on the events leading to the tenth election and its aftermath in Iran. In response to one of the questions, I compared the current political regime in Iran to the Apartheid system in South Africa and said that, in order to defeat the current fascistic regime in Iran, we Iranians could learn a lot from the struggle of South Africans as well as from the Civil Rights Movement in America. Soon after the interview was published, I received a threatening email from an âacademic,â asking me, among other things, âHow dare you compare the Aryan race of Iran to Black Africans?â The email concluded that if I had a single drop of Aryan blood in me, I wouldnât disgrace âthe Aryan nation of Iranâ by suggesting that they should learn from âBlack Africans.â
I suspect this email was coming from a group who has published a 300-plus page monologue to refute and reject my âfalse book.â Published on a well-known racist website, this monologue starts by an epigraph in Persian, depicting me as a âMongol demonâ with a Dracula face and long nails, âblood constantly dripping from his fingernailsâ⌠I think you can imagine how the rest of this brilliant critique unfolds. Suffice it to say that the only connection between my work and this âreviewâ is my name that the anonymous authors remember to throw in every now and then. Other scholars such as Dr Reza Baraheni, Dr Brenda Shaffer, Dr Zia Sadrul-Ashrafi and courageous Azerbaijani human rights activists such as Ms. Fakhteh zamani have been regular victims of this group.
This group even managed to pressure the editors of âEthnologue,â an international website pertaining to worldâs languages, to reduce the size of Iranâs Azeri population from about 23.5 million to 11 million, and this, despite the warning that many scholars and human rights activists from the Azerbaijani community had given to the Ethnologue editors regarding this group. In an open letter to Ethnologue, these scholars complained about the aggressiveness of some ultra-nationalist Iranians abroad and expressed their hope âthat the editors and researchers of Ethnologue will not cave in to various ultranationalist bullying, and will not allow Ethnologueâs scholarly reputation to be tarnished by ideologically motivated hyperboles.â Despite this, their prediction came through in Ethnologueâs latest issue: a whopping 12 million reduction in the number of Azeri-Turks in Iran!
Me: What in your opinion is the solution? Do you have any policy recommendations for government structure?
Dr. Asgharzadeh:Â I think we have to expose this racism and bring awareness to the world community about it, like the things that you guys are doing and ADAPP is doing. This is a first major step. In the course of recent elections, the government authorities emphatically made it clear that in the Islamic Republic of Iran âissues pertaining to ethnic minorities are considered a matter of national securityâ to the extent that even the regimeâs own majles/parliament could not have any say on these issues. What this means is that in Iran, ethnic minority related issues are dealt with by the regimeâs security agents. They are not even considered as normal social and political issues–let alone as human rights issues. Thus, we cannot expect much from the Islamic regime in this regard.
Me: What would Iran look like without racism?
Dr. Asgharzadeh: We have to remember that, what âbloodâ was for German Nazism, âlanguageâ is for Iranian racism. So I will leave you with this thought: when I see that millions of children belonging to Azerbaijani, Kurdish, Baluchi, Turkmen, Arab, Lur, Bakhtyari, Gilani and other communities have schools in their own languages, that will be a good sign towards the creation of an Iran without racism.
Me: Thank you very much Dr. Asgharzadeh. Your words have been insightful and inspiring.
Friday August 14, 2008
) and hard cold facts. Because when it comes to facts, we get axiomatic and try not to use our imagination to makeup crackpot theories. 
Dear Farzin,
I think we have a different view of reality. However, I commend you for not censoring messages.
Best of luck.